Welcome back Zulu-fans.
Thanks for all the great comments to yesterday's post Consecutive Trades with Low Drawdown.
Rather than adding on more comments, I thought I would just put in a quick post to reply to everyone's comments I haven't gotten to already. I already replied to Redford and townjet, thanks for the comments guys.
Setec - I haven't made any further progress on brokers that handle micro account with Zulutrade. Best of luck with yours and let us know how you make out.
Regarding the request for analysis on intra-trade drawdown - the original query in yesterday's post is based on providers that have a large number of consecutive trades with drawdowns less than 100 pips. In other words, the table shows the top 20 providers with the highest number of consecutive trades with drawdowns less than 100 pips (before Cheetah's blowup anyway).
Even with low intra-trade drawdown, you still have to consider the total drawdown you would experience with the provider when you run them with a given number of stops and lots. For example, if you were doing 2 lots with a 120 pip stop, and the user had 6 straight trades with -80 pip losses, that would be -480 pips of drawdown and you have to consider that. Let me know if you guys want to see a different type of query and and i'll consider running that.
Setec- Thanks for the data regarding the intra trade drawdown. I think what you are saying here is that The Hunter is a good provider because is average low (-7) is higher than the average low of TheKillerz (-52).
I tried that type of analysis Profit to Drawdown back in October and a later post where I picked some demo providers based on that Profit to Drawdown Provider Analysis. In fact, I found Student based on that analysis. As it turns out, I think that analysis was flawed because it was based on pips alone, and not based on number of lots opened. If I had to do it again, I would normalize it on a one-lot basis.
Dino - Right you are - Cheetah hit a -120 pip stop on Monday, and TheKillerz closed out 2 trades at -120 pips today. At one point, TheKillers was short 2 lots of GBP/USD and Cheetah was long one lot of GBP/USD at the same time. I actually like this situation because it lowers your overall risk, and if you can stomach the drawdown, its a pretty good chance you will make money on both trades.
Dazzer - Thanks for the kind words. I think you are smart to be slow to commit real funds to Zulutrade. I've lost a lot of money with Zulutrade and I think its a common newbie mistake with Forex to rush into any trading with real funds before you understand what you are getting into. I know because I've done it myself. The saying that comes to mind is:
"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement".
Thanks for the tip on Ferrari he looks like a winner - and trading with real money. What a concept!
Check back later for some new demo accounts.
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Quick comment here, getting late. The Hunter and Ferrari both have multiple trading personas. This is something I don't really understand - what's the point? I do note however, that these other AKA's seem to have different trading styles as well, for example The Hunter under the AKA of Mr. Pips has some horrendous drawdowns, while The Hunter himself is a model of low drawdown. Will the real The Hunter please stand up.
ReplyDeleteStill looking for a good trader at Zulu. My definition includes (1) reasonable frequency of trading, eg. trades on 8 out 10 days; (2) no piling on with multiple trades/lots within minutes as the otherwise good trader King Trade has demonsrated on occasion, where he goes all in and then some when the time is right; (3) win percentage of 80% plus; (4) most importantly, an intra-trade drawdown of less than 50 pips on a high majority of trades; (5) has a goodly number of trades that get 30-100 pips, ie. not dependent on small scalps. To me, a trader who can't get a few hefty gains now and again is lacking the royal jelly. Big gains in trading are a requirement for successful long term trading, IMO.
King Trade is still better than any other trader at Zulu from what I've seen so far.
Hi Chris,
ReplyDelete"Setec- Thanks for the data regarding the intra trade drawdown. I think what you are saying here is that The Hunter is a good provider because is average low (-7) is higher than the average low of TheKillerz (-52)."
Spot on, I like the intratrade drawdown "low" as it shows how far the trade moves against the trader before coming back or stopping out so you can get a feel for how good the traders timing is. The hunters trades only move (on average) 7 pips against him before coming back where some of the others are not as adept. I would say anyone letting trades go more than 70 pips against them are relying more on luck or averaging than skill but that is only my humble opinion.
thanks
setec
Hi chris, could you tell me what is the # of MAX TOTAL OPEN TRADE you set for each provider in your live & demo account?
ReplyDeletethanks
New-investor-
ReplyDeleteIn my live account, I have 2 lots max for TheKillerz, and 1 lot max for Cheetah. You should see this in the green box in the upper right corner of the blog.
With demo accounts, I do 2 lots max with a 180 pip stop. If you are using micro accounts (1K) you can do more positions if it makes sense for your account size.
I would suggest you keep your margin to 10x1.
The FX brokers will let you go as high as 200x1. So at 10x1, you would need $1000 in account value for each 10K lot or $100 in account value for each 1K lot.
Hope it helps,
Chris
Hi Chris, 2 lots mean max total open trade is 2 for each 1 lot?
ReplyDeleteCould you explain to me what is 10x1? Do you mean max total open trade is 10?
Thanks.
Chris, all your analysis is base on the excel file that pull out from Zulutrade? the data in the excel is all under closed possition, how about the position that still open?how you check in it?as i know, the open position won't be showing in the excel file, am I right?
ReplyDeletethanks
New investor-
ReplyDeleteWhen you setup your forex account, you need to choose your lot size. The 3 choices are:
Standard - 100K - each pip equals $10
Mini - 10K - each pip equals $1
Micro - 1K - each pip equals 10 cents
If you have less than $1000 to invest, chose Micro. If you have less than $10,000 to invest, chose Mini. If you have more than $50,000 to invest, chose Standard. I suggest Micro if you are just getting started.
Regarding your second comment - you are correct, all analysis is based on closed positions only. You need to look at open positions to decide if the provider is hiding losses. That's why one of my criteria for providers is 'No large open losses."
One last thing, only invest money you can afford to loose. Take all of you investment funds, divide by 10 (or maybe 20) and invest only that much. Forex is a nasty business and you are likely to lose your money - but gain some experience. Take it slow,
Chris
Hope that helps,
Chris
Chris, thanks for your advice & clarification. I still have question on the max total open trade. For example, TheKillerz, you set at 1 lot, I understand that 1 lot will be referring to 100k,10k or 1k account that open with broker, but how many trade you allow the provider to open?Unlimited or you just allow TheKillerz to open 1 lot, after this position is close, then open another?So the max total open trade will be 1, how many did you set?
ReplyDelete"No large open losess" is referring to how many?100pips or for example TheKillerz largest open trade losess will be 139pips in your account since 140pips is your SL?
Did any1 from here ever gain profit from all these provider?
New-investor-
ReplyDeleteRight now, I only allow one lot at a time with the TheKillerz. That means when he opens a lot, the system will not let him open another one until he closes the first one.
In my case, that's one 10K lot. it was 2 lots yesterday, but he had a rough week, so check back later for all the gory details.
No large open losses means that a provider opens positions that go into a loss, and he leaves them open. You can tell that on the profile page where it says "Open Positons." A large negative number is not good.
Finally, I don't know anyone who ever made money on Zulutrade that they did not evenually loose due to drawdown.
I have a lot of updates to make, so check back later.
Thanks,
Chris